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Old 03-31-2018, 04:00 AM   #1
Firefly
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Default 2nd Amendment and Gun Law

Hey guys, I'm not looking for this to turn into a political debate, but I have a few questions regarding the subject. As a UK citizen we haven't had legalised guns (outside of small caliber rifles, mostly air, or shotguns for hunting purposes) since 1997.

So my question to you guys is What is the big deal with a ban on firearms? The Constitution gives you a right to bare arms but an arm isn't a gun it could be a knife, a sword hell even a slingshot. Am I missing something, I haven't done a huge amount of research into this as it just turns political every time.

I really want to know what the Constitution says, and why people believe a ban on guns is going to affect it in anyway. As previously mentioned you can still carry arms (if my understanding is correct)

I just don't understand why this is such a big deal.
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Old 04-02-2018, 01:22 PM   #2
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“A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.“ That is the verbatim definition. It basically is to prevent the government from pulling a stunt like England did back when we were trying to create our own country.
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Old 04-07-2018, 03:20 PM   #3
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Here is an interesting video regarding the 2nd Amendment. This video doesn't discuss the meaning of "arms" specifically but it discusses the rest of the 2nd amendment and give a good context.

From what I've read, "arms" effectively meant "weapons commonly found among contemporary military arsenals." This would make the 2nd amendment intrinsically evolutionary, whcih means that the meaning evolves as the "weapons of the military" evolved. Since the military actually has far beyond what is currently "legally" allowed for civilians in the U.S., we are technically already being restricted more than the constitution allows (fully automatic weapons are basically outlawed).

"The people" need to have at least similar weapons to the military, to be able to maintain a "free state" (free country) by preventing the military/government from removing our freedoms.

I think that semi-automatic guns are likely to be the most effective thing that we can have. If they take that, we would never be able to defend our freedom.
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Old 04-15-2018, 01:26 PM   #4
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A little late to the party, but just want to put my 2 cents in. The states evolved similarly to Canada, but the key difference is that they fought against the British for their independence and were around a lot longer than Canada was. It was necessary for Americans to protect themselves in a way that was different since Canadians had British and French forces to defend the people. Americans were left to their own devices which created a personality/temperament entirely different than Canadians. Their culture has been cultivated to make sure they could protect themselves from whomever threatened them whereas we've been socialized to trust the government to protect us. I know I'm just glossing over a lot of history, but I feel that's what it is in a nutshell.
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Old 04-16-2018, 04:43 PM   #5
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Most liberals you talk to about guns blame the AR 15 and the high capacity magazines. If you question them about what they are saying they have no answers, just more BS. My wife and I have had numerous conversations with liberal people and they won't even take us up on the offer for free education on the topic. Ignorance is "?". Bliss? no, ignorance.......
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Old 04-16-2018, 05:33 PM   #6
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JJ, I had no idea you hated liberals so much. I think I would fall under that generic category as I don't see the need for them. Again, depending on circumstances, I might have grown up thinking the other way. However, I would never say that citizens will ever need fully automatic weapons.
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Old 04-16-2018, 08:06 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [b7]fluid View Post
I think I would fall under that generic category as I don't see the need for them. Again, depending on circumstances, I might have grown up thinking the other way.
There are many people that don't have or want guns and still recognize the 2nd Amendment and its legitimacy.

I think that the biggest issues is that the left is using fear mongering techniques to convince people that guns are "bad". They say that "assault style rifles" need to be banned because of a few high-profile incidences. An "assault style rifle" is simply a gun that LOOKS scary compared to a rifle with exactly or nearly the same functionality.

Also, hand guns kill way more people.

However,given the available data, it has been shown that banning guns doesn't make a place safer, statistically. But also consider that banning guns in the United States would be extremely impractical logistically.

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However, I would never say that citizens will ever need fully automatic weapons.
I agree that fully automatic weapons would be unnecessary for private citizens. Hence why they've been illegal for nearly 90 years.
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Old 04-17-2018, 01:06 PM   #8
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Well first we'd have to decide what safer means. But I'd say it's a hell of a lot safer here in Canada knowing that people can't walk around with guns unless they're breaking the law or if they're some type of law enforcement. I mean, I feel a lot safer just knowing With that being said, countries like Canada are indeed safer if you want to compare the statistics. In my opinion we're a lot safer here and better for having tighter, more restrictive gun laws.

Hand guns obviously kill more people because there are many more of them and easier to conceal but if I had it my way, I'd ban those too. But I never made this argument in the first place so this is probably moot.
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Old 04-17-2018, 03:28 PM   #9
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Default Libs

I don't hate libs, I hate idiots that are blinded by lame stream medias brain washing! If they aren't willing to stop and listen to educated facts then I really have no use for them.

Guns are not bad, they in fact keep us safer. If you want to invite criminals just post a "gun free zone sign". I have assault style weapons and they have never been pointed at anyone. They are locked up in a safe that is almost as heavy as my car,,,,lol.

Technically the term of these rifles is "black rifles". Fully auto weapons are mostly for the military, although, you can own a full auto weapon with the proper licensing with the feds. I do not own one, but I have considered it a few times. For me it wouldn't be worth the extra money it would take to get one.

And criminals inherently don't obey laws! No matter how much gun legislation is made, it will not stop Johnny gang banger from doing exactly what the F he wants......

Education is the key to gun safety from the start. If you respect guns and are trained, you will most likely never have a bad experience with a gun. I carry a loaded weapon everyday and it has never gone off by itself. I have loaded weapons in my safe. Never gone off!

The heart of the person doing the deed is the problem. Keeping guns from people who intend on committing crime is another whole issue. More capital punishment? I don't know..
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Old 04-21-2018, 01:43 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [b7]fluid View Post
Well first we'd have to decide what safer means. But I'd say it's a hell of a lot safer here in Canada knowing that people can't walk around with guns unless they're breaking the law or if they're some type of law enforcement.
So, you how do you protect yourself from a criminal with a gun pointed at you? It is common sense to know that if a criminal knows that one house has guns and another that has no guns at all, they'll go for the one without guns . . . In this scenario, guns protected this house from a criminal and the guns needn't ever be used or even brandished.

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Originally Posted by [b7]fluid View Post
I mean, I feel a lot safer just knowing With that being said, countries like Canada are indeed safer if you want to compare the statistics. In my opinion we're a lot safer here and better for having tighter, more restrictive gun laws.
Even if there are statistics that show that Canada is "safer", that certainly does not mean that it's because of gun restrictions. Correlation is not the same as causation. Similarly, feeling safe and being safe are different.

Here are a couple articles that talk about some of the "facts" that some people like to use but are not accurate along with other reasons why guns are not always bad:

7 Facts On Gun Crime That Show Gun Control Doesn't Work

Six Facts That Show Gun Control Is Not The Answer

The articles talk about some of the countries/cities where gun bans didn't actually work (Washington D.C., Australia, Britain), how gun free zones don't work, how gun ownership and violence have negative correlation, how guns have likely saved many more lives than they have taken.

This video was quite interesting as well.
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Old 04-21-2018, 08:33 AM   #11
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Fysy, first of all I love you guys despite are disagreement with regards to gun legislation. Second, it's too early and too Saturday and a waste of a day to debate this topic. I will reconvene this on Monday when I'm more grumpy. Have a great weekend!
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